RPN Havoc First Cycle!

[paintbrush]

Ok guys, so I've decided to do my first cycle of Havoc/Epistane. I'm thinking of doing a 20/30/40/40 cycle supplemented with milk thistle and a cycle support-not sure which one I want yet. I want to use nolvadex for my PCT. I know this isn't the most solid plan yet, but for that reason I am posting-I am hoping to get your opinions on whether or not I even need to supplement my cycle with anything else but liver support. Also, for my PCT-is my SERM alone sufficient? I've read a lot saying I need more than I listed and a lot saying that with Epi I don't even need all the supplements..

Thanks!

[lostsymphonies]

Everyone is going to tell you to run it for at least 5 weeks, 6 weeks at most. Everyone is also going to say 20mg is a waste and to start at 30mg. If you're gong to take a cycle support supplement it really isn't necessary to take the milk thistle, since it's already in whichever cycle support you take (I suggest Competitive Edge Labs Cycle Assist pills). I'd suggest DAA to include in your PCT as well. 3g/3g/3g/3g. I was planning on running Havoc's Epistane until I kept constantly reading about people complaining about gyno/gyno flare ups from estrogen rebound after their PCT. I would definitely suggest something like Erase to take care of that. Something like 0/0/3/2/1 should be good. Better safe than sorry. Also take multivitamins and fish oil during cycle and save creatine for PCT.

Btw, are you trying to cut, recomp or bulk?

[paintbrush]

Thanks for the good advice. Maybe I will try five weeks 30/30/40/40/40 or 50...I'll wait and see what everyone else has to say. I'll look into the cycle assist for sure. And I did forget to mention I've got fish oil and multivitamins. I'm going to be doing a cut cycle. I've been lifting this time around for a few months and put on some really nice gains, but I need to lose some body fat and gain some definition. Any dietary(daily calorie intake?) recommendations would be of use.

Odd, though-I've heard that Epi is the one PH that doesn't really cause gyno..

[ryhanson]

I decided to go with Epi as my first cycle as well. I got Iron Labs Epi-Extreme and for my cycle support I got Iron Labs Protect. I was going to go with Havoc, but I got the Epi-Extreme cheaper and the same supplier had the Protect for cheap too. I got Nolva as my SERM for PCT.
I have read mixed things about a SERM by itself being sufficient. For the heavy PHs I think you might need more in your PCT. But Epi doesn't seem to be as intense as others.
I have read a lot of Epi logs and gyno hasn't seemed to be a big complaint at all. I too have heard that the risk of gyno is lower with Epi cause it doesn't aromatize.

[lostsymphonies]

Your calorie intake all depends on your height, weight, age, and activity level. Don't take this the wrong way, but considering you've only been lifting for a few months this time around, I would work on your diet and workout routine a little more before you take epistane. Once your diet is exactly on track, you should be seeing pretty good gains and fat loss.

@ryhanson - Yeah it's not like I read gyno/estrogen rebound in every single log I've read, but it seems odd that some people were complaining about it. If you have a proper pct and an AI like erase you should be more than okay though.