i dont know

can't tell without bloodwork mate. While a low dose should be fine, when you get into the higher doses, individuals will respond differently, some may not get too much shutdown, some may be completely shutdown. Either go the safe than sorry route, or get bloods done after

Cheers to both of you for responding!

I recovered fine at 900 for 8 weeks. took sustain alpha for PCT...bloodwork confirmed I was good. 11-oxo is underrated but too bad it's so facking expensive

PA, how tall is a tree?

Verbal, I would think getting pre-cycle and post-cycle blood-work would be the best way of getting a meaningful answer to this question. Yes, it adds to the already costly cycle, assuming you have 11-oxo and not a clone, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Note: I didn't need a serm at 450mg for 4 weeks, then 600mg for two weeks, but had bloodwork done anyway to make sure. Just my $0.02

Originally Posted by thepunisher000

PA, how tall is a tree?

Verbal, I would think getting pre-cycle and post-cycle blood-work would be the best way of getting a meaningful answer to this question. Yes, it adds to the already costly cycle, assuming you have 11-oxo and not a clone, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Note: I didn't need a serm at 450mg for 4 weeks, then 600mg for two weeks, but had bloodwork done anyway to make sure. Just my $0.02

How did it worked for you at 450mg for 4 weeks?

I am thinking of taking 450mg for 6 for fat loss(cutting)

450mg was perfect for cutting. You can check my review for more specifics; 11 OXO Before/After Pics

Remember to have the rest of your diet and training on point, because it will not compensate for pure laziness or overeating. Although I will say I upped my calories in an attempt to "lean bulk," and it ended up being a cut (see pictures in review). What kind of deficit are you shooting for on your cut? I believe if you keep protein intake up at 2g/lb bw, lifting heavy weights (i.e. don't decrease load, just frequency and/or volume) you will be able to get away with a serious deficit without losing muscle mass.

I do not believe I lost any muscle (Tanita handheld probably just got it wrong due to a decrease in glycogen and water weight), because my strength was up in every lift while dropping . I think my favorite thing about 11oxo was the increase in muscle hardness and skin tightness on the stomach.

Note: I used E-Pharm 11oxo, which I recommend you use if you can snag a few bottles.

Originally Posted by thepunisher000

450mg was perfect for cutting. You can check my review for more specifics;

Remember to have the rest of your diet and training on point, because it will not compensate for pure laziness or overeating. Although I will say I upped my calories in an attempt to "lean bulk," and it ended up being a cut (see pictures in review). What kind of deficit are you shooting for on your cut? I believe if you keep protein intake up at 2g/lb bw, lifting heavy weights (i.e. don't decrease load, just frequency and/or volume) you will be able to get away with a serious deficit without losing muscle mass.

I do not believe I lost any muscle (Tanita handheld probably just got it wrong due to a decrease in glycogen and water weight), because my strength was up in every lift while dropping . I think my favorite thing about 11oxo was the increase in muscle hardness and skin tightness on the stomach.

Note: I used E-Pharm 11oxo, which I recommend you use if you can snag a few bottles.

Well, i am 36 years old and it's getting more difficult to lose the belly fat and love handles, right now i am 182 wit a BMR of 1793.26. so i need 2779 cals to mantain, i am not counting the calories right now but i am definitely below that. All i eat is Oatmeal, eggs, chicken, tuna and some carbs at breakfast and pre workout, a fairly low carb diet. Supps are Whey, casein, fish oil and multivitamin(anavite). I do lot of complexes and minimal est periods between sets to keep my heart rate up. Have lost some fat and gain weight but there is still stubborn fat in there. I was thinking of using 3 bottles of CEL 11-sterone or 2 10g Smart powders 11-oxo.

Originally Posted by drunken

Well, i am 36 years old and it's getting more difficult to lose the belly fat and love handles, right now i am 182 wit a BMR of 1793.26. so i need 2779 cals to mantain, i am not counting the calories right now but i am definitely below that. All i eat is Oatmeal, eggs, chicken, tuna and some carbs at breakfast and pre workout, a fairly low carb diet. Supps are Whey, casein, fish oil and multivitamin(anavite). I do lot of complexes and minimal est periods between sets to keep my heart rate up. Have lost some fat and gain weight but there is still stubborn fat in there. I was thinking of using 3 bottles of CEL 11-sterone or 2 10g Smart powders 11-oxo.

The belly and handles is the last place you will lose weight. Just keep pushing hard and dont ever give up. It will get better but don't expect a model body.

I am do a little experiment myself with 11-sterone and testforce/testforce 2. Its been great so far. Im only at 375 mg a day though for my cut.

Originally Posted by Primal

The belly and handles is the last place you will lose weight. Just keep pushing hard and dont ever give up. It will get better but don't expect a model body.

I am do a little experiment myself with 11-sterone and testforce/testforce 2. Its been great so far. Im only at 375 mg a day though for my cut.

You got that right man, it's a bitch, sucks to get old. Looking forward to your results.