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25-R, Spirostan-5A-Diol-6-one-3-one..?

This is a discussion on 25-R, Spirostan-5A-Diol-6-one-3-one..? within the Q & A with Patrick Arnold forums, part of the Supplements Discussion category; What do you think of this Patrick? Here's some background~ 25r is a phytosteroid (or pSARM), meaning it comes from ...

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    Senior Member BrYmAsTeR17's Avatar

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    25-R, Spirostan-5A-Diol-6-one-3-one..?


    IronMagLabs
    What do you think of this Patrick?

    Here's some background~

    25r is a phytosteroid (or pSARM), meaning it comes from a plant and produces anabolic effects. ((25R)-Spirost-5-en-3beta-ol is it's cousin, and is also a Saponin. It's supposedly a different isomer and companies have used both in various products. Both seem to have worked well for me. In fact, the only two natty supplements I gained weight and strength on were Max-Out by iForce and Mass FX by anabolic Extreme, and they both contained 25r.

    There is only one study published on it but what concerns me is the weight gain the rats experienced. They gained weight in the heart, liver, kidneys, and various other organs. Of course they are rats, but from my experience pSARMS are suppresive. 25r was never suppressive for me though which makes me think it isn't a pSARM..? What do you make of this compound and could it be harmful?

    Here's the study:

    [Farmakol Toksikol. 1976 Sep-Oct;39(5):631-5.
    [Experimental study of the anabolic activity of 6-ketoderivatives of certain natural sapogenins][Article in Russian]
    Syrov VN, Kurmukov AG.
    It is shown that 6-ketoderivatives of natural sapogenins, viz. agigenin, diosgenin and alliogenin, display the anabolic activity and do not manifest any androgenic properties. The compound IV/(25 R)-5alpha-spirostan-2alpha, 3beta, 5alpha-triol-6-OH/produces an accelerated gain of weight in rats, and also an increase in the weight of the liver, heart, kidneys, musculus tibiliasis anterior and augments the total amount of protein therein. All of the above-mentioned changes become more pronounced with the study substance introduced to young animals. Castration of sexually immature rats greatly mitigates the anabolic effect of the compound IV.

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    Senior Member Knowledgeable User Patrick Arnold's Avatar

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    what is this term "pSARM" anyway? I know what SARM is but what is the p all about?

    none of these phytoecdysteroids work through the androgen receptor pathways so they certainly arent SARMs.
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    Senior Member BrYmAsTeR17's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    what is this term "pSARM" anyway? I know what SARM is but what is the p all about?

    none of these phytoecdysteroids work through the androgen receptor pathways so they certainly arent SARMs.
    pSARM stands for (phyto Selective Androgen Receptor Modulator)

    It means that the Androgen Receptor Modulator comes from a plant extract and they are basically molecules that act like testosterone in selective muscle tissues to increase growth. Basically the only difference between a SARM and pSARM is that the later comes from a plant saponin or herb. I believe SARMS are synthetic.

    If it's not a pSARM then what could it be?

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    Senior Member Knowledgeable User Patrick Arnold's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrYmAsTeR17 View Post
    pSARM stands for (phyto Selective Androgen Receptor Modulator)

    It means that the Androgen Receptor Modulator comes from a plant extract and they are basically molecules that act like testosterone in selective muscle tissues to increase growth. Basically the only difference between a SARM and pSARM is that the later comes from a plant saponin or herb. I believe SARMS are synthetic.

    If it's not a pSARM then what could it be?

    Oh yeah thats right. pSARM. A marketing term. I am aware of some natural compounds which purportedly may affect androgen receptor binding and activation (usually as a co-factor to classical androgen) but none of these are reported to have any sort of muscle selective action. So I dont think there are any pSARMs out there that people know of

    25R is a phytoecdysteroid that works through non-hormonal mechanisms. I am sure there are many articles describing these and how they purportedly work
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    Senior Member BrYmAsTeR17's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    Oh yeah thats right. pSARM. A marketing term. I am aware of some natural compounds which purportedly may affect androgen receptor binding and activation (usually as a co-factor to classical androgen) but none of these are reported to have any sort of muscle selective action. So I dont think there are any pSARMs out there that people know of

    25R is a phytoecdysteroid that works through non-hormonal mechanisms. I am sure there are many articles describing these and how they purportedly work
    Ah! An ecdysteroid huh? OK that makes sense. But how can it be non-hormonal if it affects androgen receptors? I never understood that logic, but maybe i'm just understanding wrong.

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    Senior Member Knowledgeable User Patrick Arnold's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrYmAsTeR17 View Post
    Ah! An ecdysteroid huh? OK that makes sense. But how can it be non-hormonal if it affects androgen receptors? I never understood that logic, but maybe i'm just understanding wrong.
    it doesnt affect androgen receptors
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    this is interesting, becuae Mass FX was the only natty product that did anything at all for me, and ive used about everything

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigWilley19 View Post
    this is interesting, becuae Mass FX was the only natty product that did anything at all for me, and ive used about everything
    Did the original Mass FX only have 25R in it?

    Going slightly off topic, there are different 25R's as well so that can confuse people. Ebol has (25 R)-5alpha-spirostan-2alpha, 3beta, 5alpha-triol-6-OH for example. Its known as 6-keto diosgenin

    If I remember the one from Mass FX came from Trib.
    Last edited by KimJongIl; 01-03-2011 at 06:45 PM.
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    Yeah I can vouch for this ingredient. It's effects are really pronounced and it worked within the first week on both Mass FX and Max-out. pumps were insane on both. I believe the one in E-bol simply had an undecanoate ester attached to it to increase it's bioavailability. That's the reason for the low 50 mg dose they give. All other forms need about 200-300 mg to notice some real world results.

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