Patrick's not going to be recommending a rival's products. Especially when they're imitating his.

for whats it worth, i think a long time ago someone came out with oral 11-kt
and it was next to useless for its oral bio-availability. unlike 11-oxo before it

Originally Posted by ontop888

Would 11 KT work well in oral form instead if transdermal? I'm sure that the transdermal has better absorption, but would be oral 11 KT be better than, say, 11 oxo?

The new Primordial Performance product "Androlean" is basically like an oral e-pharm 7/11 stack. Just wondering how the 11 KT part of it will work. Thanks in advance.

if 11-kt worked better orally i would be selling it orally.

if you have any questions about the PP product then ask PP. i dont know whats in it, how much is in it, or anything else about it. nor am i going to bust my ass to find out

Originally Posted by henryv

Patrick's not going to be recommending a rival's products. Especially when they're imitating his.

I wasn't looking for a recommendation, I was looking for an affirmation that Pat's 11 spray and original 11oxo (which I hVe used multiple times) is better than oral 11kt.

Originally Posted by ontop888

I wasn't looking for a recommendation, I was looking for an affirmation that Pat's 11 spray and original 11oxo (which I hVe used multiple times) is better than oral 11kt.

My suggestion is to use Androlean when it comes out, and if it does not work, seek a money-back guarantee.

Originally Posted by ontop888

I wasn't looking for a recommendation, I was looking for an affirmation that Pat's 11 spray and original 11oxo (which I hVe used multiple times) is better than oral 11kt.

actually its much worse. i suck

Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold

actually its much worse. i suck

Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold

if 11-kt worked better orally i would be selling it orally.

if you have any questions about the PP product then ask PP. i dont know whats in it, how much is in it, or anything else about it. nor am i going to bust my ass to find out

Has DSHEA changed with regard to transdermal delivery?

The PP product is interesting but I really prefer your no BS style and I find their marketing to be a little distasteful.

Originally Posted by bushboar

Has DSHEA changed with regard to transdermal delivery?

The PP product is interesting but I really prefer your no BS style and I find their marketing to be a little distasteful.

Dietary Supplements According to DSHEA
Based on DSHEA, the definition of a dietary supplement is actually fairly narrow. To wit; dietary supplements include vitamins, minerals, herbs and similar nutritional substances, fish oils, psyllium, enzymes, glandulars, and mixtures of these.

Specifically, a dietary supplement:

- Is a product, (other than tobacco) that is intended to supplement the diet that bears or contains one or more of the following dietary ingredients; a vitamin, a mineral, an herb or other botanical, an amino acid, a dietary substance for use by man to supplement the diet by increasing the total daily intake, or a concentrate, metabolite, constituent, extracts of combinations of these ingredients.
- Is intended for ingestion in pill, capsule, tablet, or liquid form.
- Is not represented for use as a conventional food or as the sole item of a meal or diet.
- Is labeled as a "dietary supplement".
- Includes products such as an approved new drug, certified antibiotic, or licensed biologic that was marketed as a dietary supplement or food before approval certification or license (unless the Secretary of Health and Human Services waives this provision)

Originally Posted by BigBlackGuy

Dietary Supplements According to DSHEA
Based on DSHEA, the definition of a dietary supplement is actually fairly narrow. To wit; dietary supplements include vitamins, minerals, herbs and similar nutritional substances, fish oils, psyllium, enzymes, glandulars, and mixtures of these.

Specifically, a dietary supplement:

- Is a product, (other than tobacco) that is intended to supplement the diet that bears or contains one or more of the following dietary ingredients; a vitamin, a mineral, an herb or other botanical, an amino acid, a dietary substance for use by man to supplement the diet by increasing the total daily intake, or a concentrate, metabolite, constituent, extracts of combinations of these ingredients.
- Is intended for ingestion in pill, capsule, tablet, or liquid form.
- Is not represented for use as a conventional food or as the sole item of a meal or diet.
- Is labeled as a "dietary supplement".
- Includes products such as an approved new drug, certified antibiotic, or licensed biologic that was marketed as a dietary supplement or food before approval certification or license (unless the Secretary of Health and Human Services waives this provision)

the sprays are not labeled as dietary supplements. they do not have supplement facts on them for instance. they are cosmetics

exactly why i keep it with all the rest of my cosmetics, lipstick, mascera, eye shadow......wait wut?

Originally Posted by bryan101b

exactly why i keep it with all the rest of my cosmetics, lipstick, mascera, eye shadow......wait wut?

i keep my supplements in my kitchen, i keep my sprays in the bathroom with the rest of the toiletries. it all really makes sense

Originally Posted by bryan101b

exactly why i keep it with all the rest of my cosmetics, lipstick, mascera, eye shadow......wait wut?

The "cosmetic" application bit wouldn't stand up to even a small amount of scrutiny.

Fortunately the FDA doesn't seem interested in pressing the issue. Transdermal supplements have been around for a long time now.

im pretty sure it would.

if people want to misuse it and injest it as a supplement, thats their business. but i use it cause it makes my skin silky smooth and a heavenly glow.

Originally Posted by bryan101b

im pretty sure it would.

if people want to misuse it and injest it as a supplement, thats their business. but i use it cause it makes my skin silky smooth and a heavenly glow.

No, it wouldn't. It'd be very easy to prove that it's actually a transdermal delivery system for the active ingredients.

Originally Posted by bushboar

No, it wouldn't. It'd be very easy to prove that it's actually a transdermal delivery system for the active ingredients.

you not like the products

you mean like all the other skin firming lotions with their caffiene and other natural extracts (insert supplement sold at vitamin shop) that are basically transdermal delivery systems?

Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold

you not like the products

I have no problem with them and hope to try 11-spray at some point.

I'm just saying that if and when the FDA comes after these, they'll have no problems showing what they're really for. It's not like it's any secret; while the "cosmetic" warning may be on the label, most companies making these products tout effects that clearly aren't local in nature and have reps talking about systematic effects.

Originally Posted by bryan101b

you mean like all the other skin firming lotions with their caffiene and other natural extracts (insert supplement sold at vitamin shop) that are basically transdermal delivery systems?

There is a massive difference between a product that contains ingredients capable of and intended to exert a localized effect and a product which is clearly designed to provide transdermal delivery of a substance intended to have a systematic effect.

if you say so.

Originally Posted by bushboar

There is a massive difference between a product that contains ingredients capable of and intended to exert a localized effect and a product which is clearly designed to provide transdermal delivery of a substance intended to have a systematic effect.

thank you for your opinion

now go bother GNC for a while

GNC Women's Progesterone Cream - GNC - GNC

Originally Posted by bushboar

There is a massive difference between a product that contains ingredients capable of and intended to exert a localized effect and a product which is clearly designed to provide transdermal delivery of a substance intended to have a systematic effect.

I only use 11-spray in my hair, it gives me a nice shiny gloss. Ladies dig a nice head of lean, muscular hair... err.. yah

Originally Posted by BigBlackGuy

I only use 11-spray in my hair, it gives me a nice shiny gloss. Ladies dig a nice head of lean, muscular hair... err.. yah

i actually make a 1 percent hyaluronic solution and i use it in my hair and face. works better than anything you get at the store actually. especially for my hair. have considered bottling it and putting it on prototype.

Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold

i actually make a 1 percent hyaluronic solution and i use it in my hair and face. works better than anything you get at the store actually. especially for my hair. have considered bottling it and putting it on prototype.

Prototype Beauty.....a new line from the House of Arnold .....lol