didt you just finish a cycle of shmulk-up? stop cycling. you weigh 150lbs after a cycle. obviously you are reaserching training programs as is evident in your first post. do some reaserch on dieting as well and you should have no problem putting on 15-20lb natty. what your doing is silly. the produt your using is silly, running another cycle right after PCT is silly.

Originally Posted by pasamoto

didt you just finish a cycle of shmulk-up? stop cycling. you weigh 150lbs after a cycle. obviously you are reaserching training programs as is evident in your first post. do some reaserch on dieting as well and you should have no problem putting on 15-20lb natty. what your doing is silly. the produt your using is silly, running another cycle right after PCT is silly.

I don't get what's wrong with weighing 150lbs after a cycle if I started at about 135. I agree it's a bit soon for another cycle but from my understanding with these DHEA products the minimum before another cycle is the time you were "on". I'm going to be traveling alot in another 2 months until early next year otherwise I probably wouldve taken a few more weeks off. Appreciate the advice though

Whatever happened to people learning how to gain mass without the use of exogenous anabolics?

Originally Posted by Rodja

Whatever happened to people learning how to gain mass without the use of exogenous anabolics?

Well, diet and training is definitely more important than any supplements you can possibly take; I just personally find that this dhea makes a big difference in my progress. Also, those who don't have the best genes, bone structure etc do get frustrated much faster with slow progress. But after this cycle I do intend to take an extended period off and do a slow cut.

Originally Posted by Rodja

Whatever happened to people learning how to gain mass without the use of exogenous anabolics?

PHF

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Originally Posted by jdelan23

Well, diet and training is definitely more important than any supplements you can possibly take; I just personally find that this dhea makes a big difference in my progress. Also, those who don't have the best genes, bone structure etc do get frustrated much faster with slow progress. But after this cycle I do intend to take an extended period off and do a slow cut.

looking at your pics you dont have poor genetics, or bone structure. and you have your age on your side. for you, these are poor excuses. and dont do any kind of cut. you weigh nothing.

Originally Posted by pasamoto

looking at your pics you dont have poor genetics, or bone structure. and you have your age on your side. for you, these are poor excuses. and dont do any kind of cut. you weigh nothing.

Whether i have good/bad genetics can be argued i guess, but I definitely have a small bone structure and I did read somewhere that your bone size/structure is directly related to how much natty muscle you can gain. Not saying I reached my genetic potential before I gave phs a try, I know I could've done much more natty before I hit a plateau...but hey when you come across phs and realize how much they accelerate your progress it sure as hell is kinda hard to pass it up. And in reference to the cut, at what bf% would you recommend cutting? pretty sure you have much more experience than I do

fist few years of traing i would goto 15-16% now i dont go over 12%. some go higher. i think you can get to 175lb or so before you even need to consider trimming off bodyfat. everone can recomp there body differently with diet and training. this is something thats very individul and important to take the time to figure out. it requires logging your dieting and training throughout the year. this knowledge has enabled me to bulk to 12% over 6-8wks then quickly recomp back to 10% without losing any scale weight. that way i can make decent gains year round and stay fairly lean. in the summer i jump on cycle and get diced...

Originally Posted by pasamoto

fist few years of traing i would goto 15-16% now i dont go over 12%. some go higher. i think you can get to 175lb or so before you even need to consider trimming off bodyfat. everone can recomp there body differently with diet and training. this is something thats very individul and important to take the time to figure out. it requires logging your dieting and training throughout the year. this knowledge has enabled me to bulk to 12% over 6-8wks then quickly recomp back to 10% without losing any scale weight. that way i can make decent gains year round and stay fairly lean. in the summer i jump on cycle and get diced...

Thanks man. I'm still in the phase of observing how my body responds to different levels of macros, learning how to make my gains with minimum accumulation of body fat etc. It's a bit difficult to get used to having some bf when I've been skinny all my life but it's all a part of bulking i guess. gotta invest in a set of calipers soon so I can at least know what my % is lol

Days 1-4:

Nothing noticeable just yet. Weight is up to 154lbs (+3lbs) so nothing to complain about there. No sides or any different "feeling" so far, but hopefully things begin to pick up within the next few days or so. My appetite has started to increase, especially later on in the afternoon/evening I seem to never be full. Won't bore you guys with a day-by-day, I'll just update every few days as I notice changes.

Originally Posted by BigCLS

PHF

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Lawl

If you're worried about bodyfat introduce more cardio to your training and do you best to eat clean. Nothing burns fat like treadmills and a decent diet

Originally Posted by mike seaman

If you're worried about bodyfat introduce more cardio to your training and do you best to eat clean. Nothing burns fat like treadmills and a decent diet

I hear you on that bro, I've been contemplating adding in some cardio recently. Lowered my carbs since my first cycle so I'm going to wait another week or two and see if there's any increase in bf and work from there.

First week: weight is up to 158 so that's a 7lb gain (prob a bit of water weight). No sides as yet apart from a bit of lethargy the first day or two but that leveled out pretty quickly. Strength hasn't increased yet but I'll see how things go this week in the gym

Days 8-10:
Good news: weight is up to 160. weights seemed much lighter this week, also arms jumped up 1/4 inch and look noticeably fuller. Nice results so far.
Bad news: had some bad back pumps the other day in the gym but managed to work through it. Noticing I'm more aggressive and short-tempered than usual and I've been feeling lethargic at random points throughout the day. Not too bad for almost a 10lb gain in the first week or so.

Days 11-12: Back pumps eased up a bit and weight is still hovering at 160. Not sure if i should increase cals or if it's just taking some time to kick in - cals are between 3000-3400 which i think should be sufficient (always open to suggestions though). On to better news, hit a PR on leg press, went from 360 to 430 so I'm pleased with that.

Days 13-23: I've been meaning to update over the past few days but lethargy has been a bitch lately. Weight is slowly rising, currently at 165 (+14lbs). Strength is insane this week, benched 200lbs for the first time and all other major lifts are up significantly as well. Still no major sides other than the occasional lethargy and back pumps which aren't much to deal with. I'll update with some pics at the end of this week.

IMG_0713.jpg
This update pic is a bit late but this was taken at the end of last week at 165lbs. Currently attempting to recomp for the second half of my cycle which started on monday- really want to get rid of a couple lbs of bf. Things are going well so far. Only a few days in, still at 165 and looking leaner already

4 weeks bro, and it was 7 lbs in the first week - some of which was obviously water and maybe a slight bit of fat from increasing my cals so suddenly. i didn't notice any real gains until the second and third weeks

I think it's definitely possible since you did increase your caloric intake and also go onto a very intense workout routine.

Also, although it may be DHEA, the modified compounds were found to convert into testosterone so a lot of muscle gain is a very common side effect. I actually managed to stay at the same weight and lose a lot of body fat (replacing it all with muscle)

More logs going out now from respected forum members. Were hoping for a little more details on diet and exercise for our new members. Stay posted and visit the Andro Factory website.

Originally Posted by Jack Galt

More logs going out now from respected forum members. Were hoping for a little more details on diet and exercise for our new members. Stay posted and visit the Andro Factory website.

I dont think you guys realize this forum dose not really give two fucks about this product after all that has occurred.

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They will filter negativity out and be blind to these comments and 'just keep posting'' hahahah

-Matt

Anyways, for those of you who are interested in the outcome here's an update pic at the end of my cycle last week at 161lbs and much leaner.bulkupfinal.jpg