Jump to content





Photo
- - - - -

Ultimate Nutrition Discussion Thread

add nutrition thread ultimate

  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 Macrobolic

Macrobolic

    RIP Sammoken

  • Registered User
  • 4,029 posts

Posted 30 October 2009 - 02:05 PM

Sgt_B gave me the idea to compile a list of some of the discusson going on in another thread and we can keep the discussion going.

If you have anything to add, by all means do. Just keep it civil in here and I think this thread could become quite informative.

#2 Macrobolic

Macrobolic

    RIP Sammoken

  • Registered User
  • 4,029 posts

Posted 30 October 2009 - 02:09 PM

[quote name='Grambo']I think it is overhyped and even though you can restore glycogen levels with white bread/candy/pop I gurantee you the impact of using mostly low GI is going to be better for your physique and more important the long term health.

Oh ant just to be accurate and Waxy Maize is nothing like white bread in terms of metabolism.

I put on more fat when using WMS than any other post workout supp.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='ih8ursuv']For fucksake, just eat some white bread, gummi bears, Gatorade or sweet potato if you're that worried.

Why try to make everything complicated..............and expensive?

Vitargo is superior to WM, but the price is a consideration and unless you're competing, white bread or toast and jelly is just fine PostWO and much cheaper.

Real food is always your best bet.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='neuron']Research does not the support the addition of carbohydrates to a PWO drink in the event you are not dieting throughout the day.

1. Glycogen levels return to baseline without or without carbohydrates PWO.
2. Protein synthesis and markers of muscular anabolism (mRNA) are the same a) carbohydrate + protein versus B) just protein.
3. Most good forms of proteins are sufficiently insulinogenic to avoid the intake of additional carbohydrates.
4. The amount of insulin required to maximize muscular anabolism is rapidly saturated and excessive carbohydrates do not lend to more muscular anabolism.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='jcross485']I'm no expert by any means, but I am noticing that I am staying leaner now than I ever have, and I have only made some minor tweaks to my diet. I am currently between 3400-3500 calories a day, with ~300g carbs every day as well.

1). No "fast carbs" PWO...I drink some EAA's immediately pre- post-workout, and then eat a meal about 30mins later.

2). I've stuck to 3 carb sources...oatmeal, brown rice, and bran cereal. No breads or pastas as I tend to bloat up on them a bit.


Last "bulk" I was taking in 50g whey and 75g WMS immediately PWO, and eating a meal 45-60mins later, and I put on more fat than I would have liked, and I also felt extremely bloated for a while afterwards.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Sgt_B']I hate reading MF magazine.

Dont recall how I stumbled across this, but I liked it.

post
http://www.fitnessfo....t/part_one.htm

pre
http://www.fitnessfo...._nutrition.htm[/QUOTE]

[quote name='nateedogg27']I personally believe that processed carbs post-workout are the way to go, With that said, i think the tricky part is finding the right amount, so you don't experience any spill over.[quote name='Grambo']What is your reasoning? Whey protein alone spikes insulin to a degree I see no reason to use what is essentially sugar. One dose of high processed carbs causes inflamatiom in the arteries..... That is going to be a problem possibly later in life[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

[quote name='Sgt_B']malto dextrin 8-10 bucks for 10lbs at your local brewery.( i get it for 7.99)

100g = 1lb

94g's carbs per 100g of malto

@15g ish of carbs per serving, thats 9 servings per lb.

90 servings ~ 8 bucks

1 serving = 9 cents

tada :cool:

no bloating for fat for me.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Grambo']Exercise already acts in a special way like insulin and shuttle things where they need to be. After exercise your body is already ready to shuttle nutrients where they go.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='jcross485']Exactly Grambo!

You know that pump you get during a workout that lasts for a bit afterwards? Now obviously that is increased blood flow to a muscle, but I think most know this. It is this increased blood flow that brings all those vital nutrients where they need to go. Insulin spiking is not needed for that.

Also, think about it this way...you generally don't workout, eat, and then go workout again right away, do you? Well all of those nutrients that you are eating between workouts will go where they need to. You don't need to hurry them there unless you are a performance athlete participating in multiple training sessions/competitions in a very short period of time.

When you exercise, you are training your body to be more efficient in something, whether it is endurance exercise, power-based exercised, or a combination of both. In turn, your body adapts. Its not just muscles, ligaments, and tendons adapting to the stress...all aspects of your body do. With repeated bouts of exercise, your body will become more efficient at shuttling nutrients where they need to go. This is why people who are regularly active can essentially get away with eating higher calories than somebody inactive. Yes, the increased metabolism and muscle mass and general caloric expenditure goes along with that, but your body does in fact become a more efficient "machine".

Now, I am only speaking from personal experience here, so keep that in mind; however, I believe many others have had similar experiences. Last "bulk", I was taking in 50g whey isolate and 75g WMS immediately PWO, and eating another meal about 60 mins later. This "bulk", I am eating about the same calories/macros as I did before. The only difference is I have taken that 50p/75c from my post-workout shake, and fairly evenly distributed them across the rest of my meals for the day. Instead of eating a meal 60mins PWO, I am eating my next meal of the day within 30 mins. What I have personally seen is I am staying MUCH, MUCH leaner this time around. Now I am not eating any less calories, no less carbs, nothing of that sort. My numbers in the gym are blowing last bulks out of the water, so I believe my performance has not been negatively effected in any way.

This is just my own personal experience, so take it for what its worth. You could always try a mini experiment for 2 months or so to see how it works for you. Control for total macros/calories. First month, use a PWO shake with a fair amount of fast carbs. Next month, split those carbs up evenly into your other meals, and make sure to have a meal within 30mins or so PWO. I'm not saying this will work for everybody, but from what I have seen, most people have positive results.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='brownchoclit']hey guys...
how about adding a banana into your PW meal???

at the moment..my carbs are mostly from milk,35g's of oatmeal and a tsp of bee's honey. would adding a banana into the mix be a bad choice??? or should i just increase the ammount of oats instead???


brown[quote name='Grambo']I throw an banana in mine. No big deal....plus lots of good vitamins and minerals.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

[quote name='Grambo']For your reading enjoyment:

Authored by Alan Aragon

Is spiking insulin necessary post-workout? Generally not.

*No greater inhibition of muscle protein breakdown has been
seen beyond an insulin elevation to roughly 15 μU/mL,
which is slightly above resting/basal levels of 5-10 μU/mL.
*In one study, whole milk was superior for increasing net
protein balance post-workout, despite the calorie-matched
dose of fat free milk containing 81% more protein.
*The initial 30-60 minute “rapid” phase of glycogenesis
immediately post-exercise is not dependent upon insulin.
*There’s no need to attempt to spike insulin for recovery
purposes since maximal effects are seen at minimal
elevations. Simply getting enough total substrate surrounding
the training bout suffices, at least within the context of a 24-
hour separation between exhaustive training of the same
muscles. Multiple depleting endurance-type bouts per day
(i.e., < 8 hours between bouts) may be the exception to this
rule.
* On a related tangent, it’s been commonly recommended to
maximize post-exercise hyperglycemia and hyperinsulinemia
by consuming high-GI carbohydrates. However, this strategy
has been seen to offer no benefit on next-day performance,
and one recent study even saw endurance impairment.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Macrobolic']Exactly. The action of insulin is to stimulate the GLUT-4 transporter to the cell membrane. Exercise also stimulates this GLUT-4 movement, therefore, insulin does not need to be elevated to see uptake of protein or carbohydrates after exercise.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Grambo']It is interesting how many doctors don't mention this to diabetics. It makes them feel amazing and is like shooting some insulin. Once my mother started exercising regularly it helped her diabetes a ton. I think if it was more common WHY exercise helps diabetics and not just "Here is a script....oh by the way try to eat right and do some activity, ok bye" lol.... it could help.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='jcross485']I concur with the thoughts on diabetics. I am in the process of using my degree and personal research to pursue a certification as a diabetes educator, as in my field, this is actually a huge plus when looking for a job (couples with the CHES credential).

I firmly believe that with a proper diet and physical activity, many cases of "adult-onset" diabetes could be prevented.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Grambo']VERY good certification. Some knowledgeable people there. I know a woman that went to one though and it sounded like she didn't explain the diet to her. She was eating low carb (good) but the women was limiting fat intake to almost nothing (bad). You have to make up for carbs with the other nutrients.

Jcross, you ever read any stuff from Jonny Bowden, he is one of my favorite nutrition guys. One quote from him "What do doctors and dieticians know? Answer: Dick!" :)
He is somewhat different as he is an overall health guy but also knows about sports nutrition.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='jcross485']Low carbs AND low fat? Recipe for disaster. I bet natural hormones were all out of whack and metabolism was in the shitter.

I am not too familiar with him, but I will definitely look into his work. The quote alone intrigues me HAHA

As far as "overall health/nutrition" goes, I have my own personal belief that carbs are over-emphasized and the importance of healthy fats is under valued in a modern American diet. I'm not saying that carbs are bad, as they definitely have their place in a healthy diet however. Granted there are "low-carb" this and that out there, which necessarily aren't always good options, but you see far more items advertising reduced/low/no fat. Keep it simple...fewer ingredients generally = better quality.[/QUOTE]

Let's keep the discussion going!

#3 TheSherpa

TheSherpa

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,144 posts

Posted 30 October 2009 - 02:18 PM

Good stuff Macro - I don't know as much as you guys, but I think I can learn something here.

Epic multiquote

Proud member of the PHF Senior Citizens Association - Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill


#4 Macrobolic

Macrobolic

    RIP Sammoken

  • Registered User
  • 4,029 posts

Posted 30 October 2009 - 02:23 PM

epic multiquote


ftw!

#5 meathead666

meathead666

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 6,575 posts

Posted 30 October 2009 - 02:45 PM

It seems like its split down the line of agreeing with PWO sugar/carbs or disagreeing. very interesting how controversial it looks
Check out my Focus Xt Log!
http://www.prohormoneforum.com/supplement-logs/27413-meaty-accidentlys-focus-xt.html

#6 sammoken

sammoken

    Paging Dr. Faggot

  • Members
  • 5,366 posts

Posted 30 October 2009 - 02:52 PM

It seems like its split down the line of agreeing with PWO sugar/carbs or disagreeing. very interesting how controversial it looks


remember that a lot has to do with the personal physiology of the person, and how there body reacts to certain insulin stimulii
I-Force Nutrition Rep
www.IForceNutrition.com





PHFLog, follow me: Destruction Terror & Mayhem

#7 prisoner21

prisoner21

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 213 posts

Posted 25 April 2010 - 07:19 AM

Really interesting read, I've never used low Gi post workout but i guess the only way to see if its beneficial is to experiment yourself.

★★★ UK Brahs ★★★
~Barefooters Crew~
The gods made heavy metal, and they saw that it was good. They said to play it louder than Hell, we promised that we would.


#8 kennym99

kennym99

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 11 posts

Posted 24 May 2011 - 09:58 AM

From what I've just read, it seems as though it depends on each individual's metabolism. Some of us have a high metabolic rate and some low and many in between. Will the same amount of carbs change insulin levels the same amount for someone that is naturally wired and someone who is a the opposite? Assuming of course the two individuals are the same size and weight.

#9 mrbowflex1223

mrbowflex1223

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 15 posts

Posted 13 July 2012 - 03:34 PM

Macrobolic are you a dietician?

#10 Gatty85

Gatty85

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 24 posts

Posted 29 May 2013 - 10:05 PM

From what I have learnt the human body loves its sugars so the point of having any sort of sugar post work out is because protein would bind with it making the body absorb it faster.
From what I have noticed (as a pt) everyone is different. I was fitter, faster and stronger when I was living off junk food and energy drinks. Now I eat healthy I have to train 10 times as hard.
PS I lose weight if I have any sort of muscle building/weight gaining powder supplement. I will literally lose 2-3kg per week.

#11 WrkHrdPlyHrd9999

WrkHrdPlyHrd9999

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,190 posts

Posted 02 January 2015 - 06:18 AM

From what I have learnt the human body loves its sugars so the point of having any sort of sugar post work out is because protein would bind with it making the body absorb it faster.
From what I have noticed (as a pt) everyone is different. I was fitter, faster and stronger when I was living off junk food and energy drinks. Now I eat healthy I have to train 10 times as hard.
PS I lose weight if I have any sort of muscle building/weight gaining powder supplement. I will literally lose 2-3kg per week.


Something's not right here bro. Lol.

#12 NowYourDeadSon

NowYourDeadSon

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,076 posts

Posted 02 January 2015 - 04:30 PM

i'll lay out this oddball diet approach I'm implementing..

 

I'm pretty lean.. I'd venture to guess 12% or less @ 240.

 

Monday- keto, skip breakfast (2-3 hours before meal 1) ala carb-backload protocol by kiefer

tues, weds, and thurs I train 6 am, so will do carbs meals 1-2-3, then fats 4-5-6.. obv. protein with all of them

fri-  repeat monday

sat and sun, train at 630-7pm.. full blown carb backload.. will skip breakfast, have a few fat/pro meals, then train, slam 10g creatine mono 100g sugar (malto/wmz/dex) and 50g whey iso, wait 30 min, then hyper-gorge on filthy, sugary, fatty shit foods.. pizza, cake, ice cream, wings, burgers, fries.. the works.

 

goal is to stay lean and slowly build some lbm.. if I ever decide to get on cycle I will change this approach, but while just TRT I will try this







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: add, nutrition, thread, ultimate

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users


    Alexa (1)