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Utilization of Ketals

basic dmz keto line phf question super super dmz

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#1 mrsliz1724

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:46 AM

Hey PA,

First time posting a question for ya and I am more of a lurker on PHF than anything. After reading your blog about what was in Super DMZ prior and the idea that ketals can readily be converted into ketone functional groups, why hasn't anyone done this yet? If my understanding of the law is correct then you could essentially make a PH to 1,4 AD/SD/19-nor using this method. Am i wrong in this line of thinking?

I am a bio major so I have a good understanding of your basic undergrad organic chemistry/biochemistry so thats why I am interested and also why I could be wrong :yodawg:

#2 Patrick Arnold

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:13 PM

if you have a ketone there are many hydrolyzable derivatives you can make out of it, one well known being a ketal. Ketals are stable under neutral and basic conditions but will hydrolyze back to the parent ketone in acidic conditions

ketals are not covered under the catch all phrase of derivatives in the anabolic steroid control act. all the compounds you mention have ketone groups and can be made into ketals very easily

I am not sure how efficiently the stomach will hydrolyze the ketal however because although the stomach is acidic, steroids are insoluble in aqueous media. One potential solution to ensure complete hydrolysis might be encapsulation in water soluble cyclodextrins

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#3 mrsliz1724

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:36 PM

if you have a ketone there are many hydrolyzable derivatives you can make out of it, one well known being a ketal. Ketals are stable under neutral and basic conditions but will hydrolyze back to the parent ketone in acidic conditions

ketals are not covered under the catch all phrase of derivatives in the anabolic steroid control act. all the compounds you mention have ketone groups and can be made into ketals very easily

I am not sure how efficiently the stomach will hydrolyze the ketal however because although the stomach is acidic, steroids are insoluble in aqueous media. One potential solution to ensure complete hydrolysis might be encapsulation in water soluble cyclodextrins


This is precisely what I was thinking. (the idea not the use of cyclodextrins) Using a gel cap "esque" delivery system you could deliver the molecule in a water soluble form to utilize the stomach's PH of 3.5 (just going with the upper end here) to induce hydrolysis.

If a company has a gel cap that they know is digsted quickly and broken down in the stomach to release the solution we could test the ability of this reaction by just introducing the solution to acids mimic that of the make up of stomach acids. Also, test the various methods', of which you could make the molecule water soluble, efficiency and assure it doesn't hinder hydrolysis.

NMR those mofo's and assess for purity and amount of product produced.

EDIT: and of course discard of product ASAP lol...

Edited by mrsliz1724, 14 December 2012 - 12:40 PM.


#4 Patrick Arnold

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:46 PM

This is precisely what I was thinking. (the idea not the use of cyclodextrins) Using a gel cap "esque" delivery system you could deliver the molecule in a water soluble form to utilize the stomach's PH of 3.5 (just going with the upper end here) to induce hydrolysis.

If a company has a gel cap that they know is digsted quickly and broken down in the stomach to release the solution we could test the ability of this reaction by just introducing the solution to acids mimic that of the make up of stomach acids. Also, test the various methods', of which you could make the molecule water soluble, efficiency and assure it doesn't hinder hydrolysis.

NMR those mofo's and assess for purity and amount of product produced.

EDIT: and of course discard of product ASAP lol...


I dunno any way to conveniently make it water soluble other than cyclos

If you made a microemulsion that may allow enough contact with the acid to enable hydrolysis. Or if you made nanoparticles out of the steroid that may allow enough contact. I dunno

This conversation though is kinda silly. No one is gonna do this. Its just so blatantly meant to circumvent the law that its almost evil IMO

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