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What is your take on cycle "support" supplements?

blood blood pressure cholesterol cycle like liver milk thistle otc pct supplements

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#1 JMB87

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 07:43 PM

I have never tried OTC support supplements other then Milk Thistle in pct. Do you believe they are effective at keeping blood pressure in check? Have you ever heard of someone using something like Rx lisinopril for blood pressure on a cycle (hepatotoxicity concerns)? I'm mainly interested in using fenofibrate (not metabolized by the liver) to keep cholesterol and triglycerides from skyrocketing on cycle.

#2 BBG

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 07:58 PM

Antaeus Labs Aegis and Talos will pretty much cover all your needs as far as staying healthy on cycle.

Obviously you'll want an AI as on-cycle support (just in case), but there's no reason to go with an OTC AI when you can grab exem, adex or letro.

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#3 seabiscuit hogg

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 09:06 PM

Uh, you use milk thistle during cycle because silymarin protects your liver. It's not for pct. You should also monitor your bp and take hawthorn or a prescription ace inhibitor to keep it in normal range. Niacin to help with lipid profile isn't a terrible idea either. Nicotinic acid also elevates liver enzymes tho.

#4 JMB87

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 10:14 PM

Uh, you use milk thistle during cycle because silymarin protects your liver. It's not for pct. You should also monitor your bp and take hawthorn or a prescription ace inhibitor to keep it in normal range. Niacin to help with lipid profile isn't a terrible idea either. Nicotinic acid also elevates liver enzymes tho.

I don't like using it during cycle because I believe it may limit the bioavailability of the steroid. Without a pre-existing liver condition going into the cycle and as long as dosage and duration are reasonable there shouldn't be a problem. I like using it in pct, or after I complete the oral part of the cycle, to restore my liver values faster. I may use an ACE inhibitor after I finish the oral part (dbol) of my cycle, or might try a low dose soon if my blood pressure gets to high. I have plenty of fenofibrate on hand, so I'm going to use that. Niacin makes my face turn beat red with high doses, but I will continue taking a low dose.

#5 seabiscuit hogg

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 07:18 AM

I really don't think milk thistle effects bioavailability of orals. I've taken dbol with it and without it. It works the same. You should really take it during the methylated phase to protect your liver.

We do things about the same other than that. Niacin flushes me too at 2 grms, so I take 500 mgs nicotinc acid daily. I'm willing to learn if I can do anything better tho.

#6 seabiscuit hogg

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 07:23 AM

Oh yeah, bp meds don't effect bioavailability either. Monitor your bp and try to keep it in the normal range. It's hard to do sometimes, I know.

#7 JusCool

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 09:38 AM

I think the idea is they may help before and after cycles. Not as much during. I'd be interested in their effects on the prostate

#8 dANIMAL11

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 10:54 AM

Liver support is good, at least for me it is. I run a good liver support year round.

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#9 seabiscuit hogg

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 02:28 PM

I'll continue taking it while on. Hepatoprotective effect of silymarin. - PubMed Mobile

#10 seabiscuit hogg

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 02:43 PM

New therapeutic potentials of milk this - PubMed Mobile

#11 seabiscuit hogg

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 02:47 PM

Liver support is good, at least for me it is. I run a good liver support year round.

Not a bad idea.

#12 Patrick Arnold

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 02:47 PM

I have never tried OTC support supplements other then Milk Thistle in pct. Do you believe they are effective at keeping blood pressure in check? Have you ever heard of someone using something like Rx lisinopril for blood pressure on a cycle (hepatotoxicity concerns)? I'm mainly interested in using fenofibrate (not metabolized by the liver) to keep cholesterol and triglycerides from skyrocketing on cycle.



this is a subject that i have given just about zero thought about and i have about zero intentions to start doing so

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#13 tvhatic

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 03:05 PM

Silymarin is just an antioxidant. All of it's positive effects shown in the literature has been due to it acting as such. When compared to Vitamin C or E, it is of similar effectiveness in helping prevent organ damage (ie there is nothing special about it). This is why most new studies done on it are a combination of silymarin and vitamin E together.

In my opinion, if you want to prevent free radical damage to your liver during a cycle, just take the good old vitamin C / E. It will have the same effect.
Now, if you actually want to take something that may help prevent liver damage, take TUDCA as they give you UDCA if you show up to the hospital with liver cholestasis due to steroid use.

#14 SpiderJerusalem

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 07:06 PM

Essentiale Forte

"its fucking lasik surgery for christ sake. relax. its not like you are getting a triple bypass" :facepalm:
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#15 seabiscuit hogg

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 07:14 PM

Essentiale Forte

I remembered that when I started reading it. What about kudzu? Puerarin, isolated from Pueraria lobata - PubMed Mobile

#16 seabiscuit hogg

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 07:17 PM

Also agonizes GHRHr Induction of growth hormone release by - PubMed Mobile

#17 TheGallows

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 07:43 PM

this is a subject that i have given just about zero thought about and i have about zero intentions to start doing so


Why no interest in a Prototype health supplement for liver or lipids or blood pressure? Liability issues?

#18 Patrick Arnold

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 07:00 AM

Why no interest in a Prototype health supplement for liver or lipids or blood pressure? Liability issues?


cuz i am doing other fucking things

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#19 spinyvegeta

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 07:08 AM

Lol.....ouch

#20 seabiscuit hogg

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 11:21 AM

cuz i am doing other fucking things

kinda testy aren't we?

#21 Patrick Arnold

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 11:22 AM

kinda testy aren't we?


yes very

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#22 SpiderJerusalem

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 11:48 AM

I remembered that when I started reading it. What about kudzu? Puerarin, isolated from Pueraria lobata - PubMed Mobile


Interesting! The more weapons in our pro-liver arsenal, the better, I say.

I am 87% (lol) confident that Essentiale Forte does in fact lower liver values. My monkey had bloodwork some years back indicating high values (which could have come from high Ostarine use (50mg/day) over at least 3 months, and/or Tylenol being used several days that week to fight off headaches), and then less than 2 weeks later with 10 days of EF use in between, another blood test showed liver values completely normal. I suppose it could be coincidence (there's my 13% doubt), but based off of everything I've read about EF to date, including the results of studies done on bodybuilders using hepatoxic orals, I feel pretty confident this stuff does what they claim it does. I don't know how good it is at treating/reversing liver disease that is already a far ways along, but as for protecting the liver by allowing it to heal easier/faster, it seems a pretty safe bet. IMO...

"its fucking lasik surgery for christ sake. relax. its not like you are getting a triple bypass" :facepalm:
--P.A.


"Domesticated badgers? Really? As pets?"

--Walter Bishop


#23 ASFh32

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 10:06 PM

The liver is a pretty resilient organ and is pretty good at rebuilding itself. Virtually all "on cycle support" is a waste of money. But if it makes you feel better that feel-good placebo is worth something I guess

#24 SpiderJerusalem

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 08:49 AM

The liver is a pretty resilient organ and is pretty good at rebuilding itself. Virtually all "on cycle support" is a waste of money. But if it makes you feel better that feel-good placebo is worth something I guess


Could you elucidate/elaborate?

Edited by SpiderJerusalem, 05 April 2014 - 09:09 AM.

"its fucking lasik surgery for christ sake. relax. its not like you are getting a triple bypass" :facepalm:
--P.A.


"Domesticated badgers? Really? As pets?"

--Walter Bishop


#25 JMB87

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 05:50 PM

The liver is a pretty resilient organ and is pretty good at rebuilding itself. Virtually all "on cycle support" is a waste of money. But if it makes you feel better that feel-good placebo is worth something I guess

Could you elucidate/elaborate?

I would mostly agree. I've never seen a real juicer touch any of that crap, but that doesn't mean an RX drug like fenofibrate will not offer a benefit. Will experiment this cycle and see the blood work in a couple months.





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