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Epi Converting To Phera

Havoc Epistane Epi Phera Prohormone Hdrol

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#1 IIIlIIllIllllIIIlllIIIlIIl

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 11:46 PM

I've read that Epi can convert into Phera when introduced to heat outside of the body, in encapsulated form. I'm curious as to if even a small amount of Epi converts into Phera once inside of the body, therefore acting as a true "prohormone" to Phera. Something like Hdrol to Tbol. Hdrol is sufficiently active on its own, but still converts to Tbol at around 5% from what I've read. Therefore, making Hdrol the main catalyst, but still leaves it as a "prohormone" to Tbol. 

 

I know none of this even matters because all of these compounds are now banned, but it's always fun to day dream.. Lol.

 

Any thoughts? 



#2 Wilko

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 11:49 PM

Where did you come by this information?


Fuck ulcerative colitis. I didn't need that blood anyway.

#3 IIIlIIllIllllIIIlllIIIlIIl

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 12:01 AM

Where did you come by this information?

Various sources over the years (forums/ forum posts, articles, etc). 



#4 Wilko

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 12:18 AM

Huh, I've never encountered that myself. I'd think were it possible we'd have found people milling epi into phera en masse. Of course, I'm also what's known as "Not A Chemist" so who knows. Perhaps one of the more educated members can chime in. I'm quite curious.


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Fuck ulcerative colitis. I didn't need that blood anyway.

#5 IIIlIIllIllllIIIlllIIIlIIl

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 12:24 AM

Huh, I've never encountered that myself. I'd think were it possible we'd have found people milling epi into phera en masse. Of course, I'm also what's known as "Not A Chemist" so who knows. Perhaps one of the more educated members can chime in. I'm quite curious.

Here's an article written by Mike Arnold.

 

http://www.ironmagaz...stane-explored/

 

"One interesting fact worth mentioning is its ability to convert to desoxymethyltestosterone (i.e. Pheraplex); a well known, currently scheduled anabolic steroid which was covertly produced by Patrick Arnold for use as an undetectable anabolic agent. Although few people think of Epistane as a PH, its ready conversion to desoxymethyltestosterone classify it as a prohormone."



#6 studog

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 12:27 AM

I have also heard of this , will have to wait for some of the church elders to chime in on this subject.


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#7 deezle1

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 12:32 AM

There is full article on total flex blog about this.
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Go w/ Epi-Andro

#8 IIIlIIllIllllIIIlllIIIlIIl

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 12:32 AM

Here's an article showing that Epi does convert to Phera once inside the body, from my understanding. 

 

http://www.totalflex...nvert-to-phera/

 

“It is known that epithiostanol is metabolized to olefin steroid (5α-androst-2-en-17β-ol) by oxygenation and dethionylation; it is therefore suggested that 17α-methylepithiostanol, which is a 17-methylated analogue of epithiostanol, might be metabolized to olefin steroid desoxymethyltestosterone”



#9 IIIlIIllIllllIIIlllIIIlIIl

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 12:33 AM

There is full article on total flex blog about this.

Lol, just posted the link above :)


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#10 D-575

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 01:35 AM

This is like the "campfire legend" of the PH/DS world.  Will we ever have 100% confirmation?  Maybe, but as of today I don't think I've ever found anything even remotely close to conclusive.

 

Henry's article, amongst others, mainly state that epi must react with heat in order for the sulfur bond to drop and also undergo oxygenation to acquire a double bond at C2 to convert to phera.  My question is at what temperature and for how long?  Are there other factors involved, like certain enzymes, etc?

 

Secondly, how much of an epi dose (minimum) is required to even fulfill a worthwhile venture to produce enough phera to illicit effects?  Is this dose researcher dependent, or is there a common ballpark figure?

 

Third, for starters, I think analyzing metabolites would be a way to know if epi is even producing phera.  Articles state that a study done analyzing metabolites for epi detected phera but weren't sure if it was epi that produced it.  This was said because the product they tested also had a trace amount of phera already present, so that was pretty much worthless.

 

What needs to really be done is to first start by acquiring pure, 100% 17a-methy-epithiostanol without any contaminants whatsoever.  Then research this using healthy subjects (rats of course) and analyze their urine at certain intervals using the best detection methods.  This would ensure better assurance for what will and what will not be expected to be detected as metabolites.

 

Lastly, I always wondered if one can just take raw epi and convert it to phera outside the body (in vitro) first using specific reactions and such.  I'm not saying or condoning to engage in this act; as you need to be pretty skilled in that field.  However, I'm just saying can it be done?  And I assume the short answer to this would be, yes.


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#11 IIIlIIllIllllIIIlllIIIlIIl

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 02:45 AM

This is like the "campfire legend" of the PH/DS world. Will we ever have 100% confirmation? Maybe, but as of today I don't think I've ever found anything even remotely close to conclusive.

Henry's article, amongst others, mainly state that epi must react with heat in order for the sulfur bond to drop and also undergo oxygenation to acquire a double bond at C2 to convert to phera. My question is at what temperature and for how long? Are there other factors involved, like certain enzymes, etc?

Secondly, how much of an epi dose (minimum) is required to even fulfill a worthwhile venture to produce enough phera to illicit effects? Is this dose researcher dependent, or is there a common ballpark figure?

Third, for starters, I think analyzing metabolites would be a way to know if epi is even producing phera. Articles state that a study done analyzing metabolites for epi detected phera but weren't sure if it was epi that produced it. This was said because the product they tested also had a trace amount of phera already present, so that was pretty much worthless.

What needs to really be done is to first start by acquiring pure, 100% 17a-methy-epithiostanol without any contaminants whatsoever. Then research this using healthy subjects (rats of course) and analyze their urine at certain intervals using the best detection methods. This would ensure better assurance for what will and what will not be expected to be detected as metabolites.

Lastly, I always wondered if one can just take raw epi and convert it to phera outside the body (in vitro) first using specific reactions and such. I'm not saying or condoning to engage in this act; as you need to be pretty skilled in that field. However, I'm just saying can it be done? And I assume the short answer to this would be, yes.

I've seen the majority of Epi users complain that it causes joint pain when ran @ 30-60mgs daily. I've come across multiple users in the past who have ran it at around 90-120mgs daily, and have had no joint pain what so ever. Could this be because a higher rate of Epi (dry) is in fact converting to Phera (wet)? You would think that adding more Epi to the equation would just make things worse, but if an acceptable amount is indeed converting to Phera, it could be just enough to subside the dry, achy, joint pain caused by Epi itself. Then again, these guys have also stated that Epi is "a whole other animal" when ran at 100mgs and up. They seem to be getting different results when running it that high, compared to someone else who is running it at an average dose. The majority of reviews I've read with individuals running it that high have stated that they basically "blew up", like a whole other compound was thrown into the mix. Now of course, all of this is just speculation. Just throwing that out there. Very good points you mention.

#12 Testis Pilot 0.4.2o.0

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 02:56 AM

I've read that Epi can convert into Phera when introduced to heat outside of the body, in encapsulated form. I'm curious as to if even a small amount of Epi converts into Phera once inside of the body, therefore acting as a true "prohormone" to Phera. Something like Hdrol to Tbol. Hdrol is sufficiently active on its own, but still converts to Tbol at around 5% from what I've read. Therefore, making Hdrol the main catalyst, but still leaves it as a "prohormone" to Tbol. 

 

I know none of this even matters because all of these compounds are now banned, but it's always fun to day dream.. Lol.

 

Any thoughts? 

 

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#13 live1

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 12:47 PM

So epi is allready active like sd and mechabol?no conversion needed?



#14 poopypants

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 12:51 PM

Yes it's an active steroid. You only get phera through heat degradation. There's tons of threads on this over the years and even a few articles as mentioned.

Despite this fact never heard of anyone actually doing it other than a few guys joking about leaving a bottle of epi out on the dash of their car etc...
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#15 henryv

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 01:03 PM

Henry's article mainly states that epi must react with heat in order for the sulfur bond to drop and also undergo oxygenation to acquire a double bond at C2 to convert to phera.

 

I didn't say it must react with heat. I said it does.

 

You only get phera through heat degradation.

 

There's no evidence that heat is the only way. There's probably also an enzymatic route, since the conversion of epitiostanol to desoxytestosterone [which is analogous to the conversion of epistane to phera] happens in both the liver and intestine.


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330tqur.jpg


#16 IIIlIIllIllllIIIlllIIIlIIl

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 01:56 PM

So epi is allready active like sd and mechabol?no conversion needed?

Yes, Epi is an active steroid, but that does not mean it cannot convert to another compound as well. Same rules apply with Hdrol. It's an active compound on its own, but it also converts to the parent hormone (Tbol) as well. It's always a plus when a certain compound resembles multiple anabolic pathways as well as being sufficiently active prior to being metabolized into something else. 



#17 IIIlIIllIllllIIIlllIIIlIIl

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 02:00 PM

I didn't say it must react with heat. I said it does.

 

 

There's no evidence that heat is the only way. There's probably also an enzymatic route, since the conversion of epitiostanol to desoxytestosterone [which is analogous to the conversion of epistane to phera] happens in both the liver and intestine.

Thank you for clearing things up; I appreciate it! It still leaves me wondering though! Lol. Excellent article by the way! 



#18 SimonBoyle

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 04:33 PM

so, a kit containing epi and said enzymes for mixing? lol

 

Phera was decent, but it has obtained mythical status since its ban, plenty of other better compounds out there, still legal, even in the states. And it wasn't wet for me, but neither was M1T


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#19 poopypants

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 11:09 PM

I didn't say it must react with heat. I said it does.


There's no evidence that heat is the only way. There's probably also an enzymatic route, since the conversion of epitiostanol to desoxytestosterone [which is analogous to the conversion of epistane to phera] happens in both the liver and intestine.

I'm sorry... I meant outside the body. I read your blog multiple times re: the epi having some phera metabolites... but then also they were worried about the starting material being tainted... so I just purposely didn't even address the in vitro possibilities.

Was also trying to make the point that epi->phera isn't just an hdrol->tbol or anything, it's an active steroid that when broken down makes another active steroid...
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#20 poopypants

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 11:13 PM

Same rules apply with Hdrol. It's an active compound on its own, but it also converts to the parent hormone (Tbol) as well.

but I think this change happens through typical enzymatic steroid conversion routes(may be incorrect) and its literally an active prohormone... epi->phera isn't through the typical steroid conversion enzymes and epi isn't a "prohormone" to phera, at least not in the typical sense.
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#21 IIIlIIllIllllIIIlllIIIlIIl

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 11:14 PM

Was also trying to make the point that epi->phera isn't just an hdrol->tbol or anything, it's an active steroid that when broken down makes another active steroid...

Hdrol is an active steroid in pill form. Sorry if I misunderstood what you said there. 



#22 IIIlIIllIllllIIIlllIIIlIIl

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 11:31 PM

but I think this changes happens through typical enzymatic steroid conversion routes(may be incorrect) and its literally an active prohormon... epi->phera isn't through the typical steroid conversion enzymes and epi isn't a "prohormone" to phera, at least not in the typical sense.

The term I would use for Epi and Hdrol are "Pro-Steroids". They're both active steroids in pill form. Most don't take Hdrol because it converts to Tbol in small amounts. They take it because Hdrol itself gives desirable results on its own that are very comparable to "the target hormone". I agree we're talking apples to oranges here. One wouldn't take Epi (dry) just for it to convert to Phera (wet). They're basically on different ends of the spectrum when it comes to real world results. The point i'm trying to get across, is that they're both effectively active as is. They most likely do convert to other hormones (Tbol/ Phera) in small amounts, but that conversion isn't required for either of them to do their job. 

 

"Bro-science"/ 10 ^



#23 D-575

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 11:57 PM

^ This is true.  Researchers aren't really taking halo because it converts to Tbol in little amounts.  H-drol itself illicits effects on it's own.  Same can be said for M1,4ADD.

 

This is the same for Epistane and it's clones.  Researchers should note that epi should not be administered with the notion that it will or has to convert to phera in order for it to give effects.  This is not the case.  Researchers should not be expecting wet or wetter effects because of the possibility of epi converting to phera.  Epi is known to give dry results.  Epi and phera are two completely different compounds that give off two completely different effects.

 

However, it just so happens that epi is like one of the few, if not, the only compound I can think of that has the ability to convert to a totally different active compound.  Pretty damn cool if you ask me.


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#24 IIIlIIllIllllIIIlllIIIlIIl

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 12:44 AM

 

However, it just so happens that epi is like one of the few, if not, the only compound I can think of that has the ability to convert to a totally different active compound.  Pretty damn cool if you ask me.

Yeah, that is pretty legit. If you Google around you'll come across several reviews of Epi being ran at 100mgs+. The "researchers" do state that it acts like a completely different compound when used in those dosages. Now of course they're getting more active ingredient (Epi), but they could also be getting more active ingredient that does in fact convert into Phera, which would produce slightly different results. 



#25 Vol. 4

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 04:26 AM

Maybe Hector Lombard was on Epi, got caught of Phera but that stuffs been away for years.
Unless they have some UG lab manufacturing these for athletes...but that can't be possible 😲?lol
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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Havoc, Epistane, Epi, Phera, Prohormone, Hdrol

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