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#1 Looseunitwa

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 04:21 AM

Got my hands on some test 400 blend. Test e 200 / sus 200.

Anyone run a blend similar and experiences? Seems a pretty good combo.....most basis covered with esters.

Would harder to manage sides on something like this, or better yada yada.........


And in before Scope says pip will make me cry.........maybe this blend won't have a pip, I hope :-(

#2 Nostrum

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 06:43 AM

I'm gonna start calling you Longstockings cuz you so Pippy.


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#3 SLR722

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 08:07 AM

Bro anything high contraction or blend will give you pip.

#4 commandopat

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 08:14 AM

I'm gonna start calling you Longstockings cuz you so Pippy.

Wow...
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Exercise--------1RM--------@ Weight
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Pushups--------2020 in 1 set, non-stop, no knees on ground etc, in 2H 8 mins.

#5 Scope75

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 08:37 AM

In for the upcoming story/laughs.....
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#6 Chris Benoit

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 09:45 AM

I'm gonna start calling you Longstockings cuz you so Pippy.


Hahaha...

Truth, tho. I had some T400 and it was nothing short of pure agony for literally a week after injection.
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#7 F2...

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 10:11 AM

It's gonna feel like test, only harder to control sides with all the different esters. Test is test, no difference other than half life.



#8 swim21

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 01:38 PM

Yea I don't think there will be any noticeable difference

#9 tiesthatbind

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 02:12 PM

It's gonna feel like test, only harder to control sides with all the different esters. Test is test, no difference other than half life.


This is actually what I thought for a long time. Until I recently read a study. Short esters reach a higher plasma concentration than long esters, but longer esters are more anabolic. I will post the study in a bit
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#10 tiesthatbind

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 02:13 PM

"I made a similar thread like this one on Evolutionary.org about a year ago. Consequently, people have a difficult time discerning short esters from longer esters, which results in a poor performance when cycling. Am I splitting hairs?? Quite possibly, however, if we can come to an understanding that different ester chains have different properties then we might be able utilize those benefits and get the optimal effects out of using steroids, whether you cycle or blast and cruise this can be beneficial...


Originally, I was going to make an all-inclusive thread about esters, however, time would fail me to do such a thread, therefore, I will narrow it down to "two" main topics that should arouse a lot people's attention, and it could be quite helpful for a future reference when designing a cycle. I'm just going to assume everyone on this board knows the basics on the half-lives of all the different esters, hence, we can get to the main functions of different esters without any qualms.



1). Short esters yield a higher peak plasma concentration than long esters.

2). Long esters are more anabolic than short esters.


SHORT ESTERS

Short esters do yield a higher peak plasma than long esters. In relation to TEST is TEST, ultimately TEST is TEST, however, depending on what ester is attached to the TEST it will indeed perform a different function.


Here is a study on short esters v. long esters. The study clearly shows that short esters yield a higher peak plasma concentration than long esters, which administers higher levels of the drug.


Scientists examined 3 different testosterone preparations with different ester lengths. What they found was that the shortest ester provided the highest peak levels of testosterone, followed by the medium length ester, and the lowest peak level was found with the longest ester. Even a two- to threefold higher dose of the shortest acting ester studied did not fully achieve the effects of longer esters concerning gonadal and metabolic functions. (2) Did I mention that the amount of pure testosterone (minus the ester) was the same in all injections?

100 mg/ml x 1 ml intragluteal injection of nandrolone phenylpropionate caused a peak plasma concentration of almost double that of the 100 mg/ml x 1 ml intragluteal injection of nandrolone decanoate.

This level remained increased for almost seven days, too. By fourteen days, even though the nandrolone decanoate ester demonstrated a much higher plasma level than the nandrolone phenylpropionate level, the net amount of both was so low as to be ineffective.

This tells me that the effects I can see from using 500 mg of Testosterone enanthate per week probably won't be the same as using 500 mg of Testosterone propionate or even Testosterone suspension per week. I'm going to see better results with the propionate and even better results with the suspension.


Peak plasma concentration is just the highest level of drug that can be obtained in the blood, which short esters provide more of a drug then long esters. In other words, you get more of a particular drug with short esters than you do from long esters.


LONG ESTERS


Long esters are more anabolic than short esters.


In 1954, a researcher named Reifstein and his colleagues compared an injection of Testosterone Propionate with Testosterone Enanthate, and they found that the injection of testosterone propionate resulted in nitrogen retention of 1.02g/day with a total measurable anabolic activity of 12 days, while the Enanthate version resulted in nitrogen retention of 1.76g/day and had a total measurable anabolic activity of 33 days. (1). Therefore, a 200mg shot of Testosterone (long ester) is going to have a greater overall anabolic effect than a 200mg shot of a short ester.

So does that mean that the ester effects the anabolic ability of the actual steroid. Well, yes, that would seem to be the case. If a steroid hangs out in your body for a longer amount of time, and helps you retain more nitrogen, then its overall anabolic effect would be greater. Granted, they’re studying a single injection- but with a typical injection schedule of testosterone propionate, as compared to testosterone enanthate, most people gain more weight from the enanthate version. Think about it; experience tells us that with an every other day injection schedule of 100mgs of testosterone propionate versus 400mgs/week of testosterone enanthate, most people gain more weight from the enanthate. Yet, the actual amount of injected (pure) testosterone is virtually the same, even when you subtract the weight of the ester.


Also, testosterone’s effect on Growth Hormone and IGF-I (two very anabolic hormones) are also dependent on aromatization to estrogen? Again, this is why we gain more muscle with the long estered tests. This means that you actually get far more anabolism from the longer estered testosterones, because the increased conversion to estrogen will provide a greater elevation in your GH and IGF-1 levels. And many other positive effects of testosterone are actually dependent on it’s conversion to estrogen as well. Yes, long ester chained TEST create more estrogen than short esters, however, they are more anabolic than short esters, that's why you always hear people bulk on long esters and cut on short esters..


In conclusion, short esters have a higher peak plasma concentration than short esters, and long esters are more anabolic than short esters, so there is a difference in TEST, TEST is just not TEST, it depends on the ester chain, which performs different functions."

This was copy and pasted from another forum
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#11 mixedup

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 04:19 PM

I read that study and decided to order in some tri cutter tren ace mast prop and rest prop. I'm running those 3 compounds all ethanate right now figure I'll get best of both short and long

#12 Looseunitwa

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 05:43 PM

I'm gonna start calling you Longstockings cuz you so Pippy.


As long as it's not Longshanks....................that's all I need lol

#13 RoadBlocK

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 05:47 PM

Never really been a fan of the blends(sust), but always believed in take what you can get and deal with it, and had much positive results from the old 250 redijects back in the day.

 

If its good quality, Im sure it could be great, its essentially 5 "different" tests in one, my only concern would be what mg potency is in each part of the sust, and how many ml you will have to do to reach the cumulative effective results from the individuals, Im assuming its prop, phen, iso, dec, and if the prop is only something like 20mg, to get like 100mg of that, it would be something like a gram of test e, estimating of course without knowing the the mg/ml.

 

Does any of that make sense?


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#14 Looseunitwa

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 05:49 PM

"I made a similar thread like this one on Evolutionary.org about a year ago. Consequently, people have a difficult time discerning short esters from longer esters, which results in a poor performance when cycling. Am I splitting hairs?? Quite possibly, however, if we can come to an understanding that different ester chains have different properties then we might be able utilize those benefits and get the optimal effects out of using steroids, whether you cycle or blast and cruise this can be beneficial...
Originally, I was going to make an all-inclusive thread about esters, however, time would fail me to do such a thread, therefore, I will narrow it down to "two" main topics that should arouse a lot people's attention, and it could be quite helpful for a future reference when designing a cycle. I'm just going to assume everyone on this board knows the basics on the half-lives of all the different esters, hence, we can get to the main functions of different esters without any qualms.
1). Short esters yield a higher peak plasma concentration than long esters.
2). Long esters are more anabolic than short esters.
SHORT ESTERS
Short esters do yield a higher peak plasma than long esters. In relation to TEST is TEST, ultimately TEST is TEST, however, depending on what ester is attached to the TEST it will indeed perform a different function.
Here is a study on short esters v. long esters. The study clearly shows that short esters yield a higher peak plasma concentration than long esters, which administers higher levels of the drug.
Scientists examined 3 different testosterone preparations with different ester lengths. What they found was that the shortest ester provided the highest peak levels of testosterone, followed by the medium length ester, and the lowest peak level was found with the longest ester. Even a two- to threefold higher dose of the shortest acting ester studied did not fully achieve the effects of longer esters concerning gonadal and metabolic functions. (2) Did I mention that the amount of pure testosterone (minus the ester) was the same in all injections?
100 mg/ml x 1 ml intragluteal injection of nandrolone phenylpropionate caused a peak plasma concentration of almost double that of the 100 mg/ml x 1 ml intragluteal injection of nandrolone decanoate.
This level remained increased for almost seven days, too. By fourteen days, even though the nandrolone decanoate ester demonstrated a much higher plasma level than the nandrolone phenylpropionate level, the net amount of both was so low as to be ineffective.
This tells me that the effects I can see from using 500 mg of Testosterone enanthate per week probably won't be the same as using 500 mg of Testosterone propionate or even Testosterone suspension per week. I'm going to see better results with the propionate and even better results with the suspension.
Peak plasma concentration is just the highest level of drug that can be obtained in the blood, which short esters provide more of a drug then long esters. In other words, you get more of a particular drug with short esters than you do from long esters.
LONG ESTERS
Long esters are more anabolic than short esters.
In 1954, a researcher named Reifstein and his colleagues compared an injection of Testosterone Propionate with Testosterone Enanthate, and they found that the injection of testosterone propionate resulted in nitrogen retention of 1.02g/day with a total measurable anabolic activity of 12 days, while the Enanthate version resulted in nitrogen retention of 1.76g/day and had a total measurable anabolic activity of 33 days. (1). Therefore, a 200mg shot of Testosterone (long ester) is going to have a greater overall anabolic effect than a 200mg shot of a short ester.
So does that mean that the ester effects the anabolic ability of the actual steroid. Well, yes, that would seem to be the case. If a steroid hangs out in your body for a longer amount of time, and helps you retain more nitrogen, then its overall anabolic effect would be greater. Granted, they’re studying a single injection- but with a typical injection schedule of testosterone propionate, as compared to testosterone enanthate, most people gain more weight from the enanthate version. Think about it; experience tells us that with an every other day injection schedule of 100mgs of testosterone propionate versus 400mgs/week of testosterone enanthate, most people gain more weight from the enanthate. Yet, the actual amount of injected (pure) testosterone is virtually the same, even when you subtract the weight of the ester.
Also, testosterone’s effect on Growth Hormone and IGF-I (two very anabolic hormones) are also dependent on aromatization to estrogen? Again, this is why we gain more muscle with the long estered tests. This means that you actually get far more anabolism from the longer estered testosterones, because the increased conversion to estrogen will provide a greater elevation in your GH and IGF-1 levels. And many other positive effects of testosterone are actually dependent on it’s conversion to estrogen as well. Yes, long ester chained TEST create more estrogen than short esters, however, they are more anabolic than short esters, that's why you always hear people bulk on long esters and cut on short esters..
In conclusion, short esters have a higher peak plasma concentration than short esters, and long esters are more anabolic than short esters, so there is a difference in TEST, TEST is just not TEST, it depends on the ester chain, which performs different functions."
This was copy and pasted from another forum


Great info. I'm assuming then maybe a sus test cycle might be best of both worlds?

#15 Looseunitwa

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 05:52 PM

Never really been a fan of the blends(sust), but always believed in take what you can get and deal with it, and had much positive results from the old 250 redijects back in the day.
 
If its good quality, Im sure it could be great, its essentially 5 "different" tests in one, my only concern would be what mg potency is in each part of the sust, and how many ml you will have to do to reach the cumulative effective results from the individuals, Im assuming its prop, phen, iso, dec, and if the prop is only something like 20mg, to get like 100mg of that, it would be something like a gram of test e, estimating of course without knowing the the mg/ml.
 
Does any of that make sense?


Yep understand what you mean.....makes sense to me at least. I guess theses blends are designed to try and cover all bases, best of both worlds but when dive in for the deeper look, maybe they are not!

#16 Looseunitwa

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 05:55 PM

Hahaha...
Truth, tho. I had some T400 and it was nothing short of pure agony for literally a week after injection.


Yep pinned my usual test e 400 on Monday, fuuuuuuuuuuk me again nasty pip...........new vial tho as half way they last vial, pip eased which is weird. I am having different time on this cycle lol all part of the learning experience hahaha

#17 Looseunitwa

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 05:56 PM

Bro anything high contraction or blend will give you pip.



I'll try the test blend 400 tomorrow and see what happens.......wish me luck lol

#18 D-575

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 06:43 PM

What a great read.  Thanks for this.  It all makes perfect sense.

 

So if long esters provide better anabolic activity, which is what we all strive for, what is the benefit to using a short ester?  This question is geared directly for test, not other compounds.

 

It seems like long esters of test are superior to short chained esters across the board.  Oh and let's also not forget the convenience that long esters provide, in having to pin less frequently than short esters.

 

From the read, it looks like the only thing short chained esters of test provide is the peak concentration.  Is there an actual benefit of this?  Just off the top of my head, having a higher peak plasma concentration seems like a short term benefit, not long term.

 

So I'm curious, what are the actual benefits to higher peak elevations that short esters provide?



#19 teamasylum86

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 08:37 PM

I guess the same can be said for tren acetate and tren e?



#20 themaharaja

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 09:39 PM

I had some t500. On top of that the ba was too high, so the pip was crippling.

#21 swim21

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 10:07 PM

Neither of these are going to most likely provide any noticeable real world difference. Maybe on paper but there are usually multiple other drugs involved with us and the extra protein synthesis from the long ester may be estrogen related in which case an AI would counteract that.

Short or long, I've never known anyone to say that they gained better on one vs the other. Don't think it matters real world
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#22 Esc8p2NeverLand

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 01:38 PM

I'm gonna start calling you Longstockings cuz you so Pippy.

 

F.U.C.K.  Good night PHF, nothing will get better than this.


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