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Creating Some Havoc with Epi - The advanced user guide by Krzna

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#1 KmuL


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Posted 08 November 2008 - 10:08 AM

Quoted from Krzna's great thread on bb.com, please note that I suggest The nolva pct at 20/20/20/20 and a Test booster added starting on the 3rd week of the nolva...This guide is a bit out of date...but if you want to go OTC for PCT...check out www.otcpct.com

I am 21, giving these products a shot, this is my first time with Prohormones, am i doing something wrong?
Yes you are, this guide is for advanced users. People who have had experience with one or more of these products in the past.

But I am looking to maximize gains, why would'nt you want me to use these products?
First off, forget the sides and the potential damage, getting gains is no big deal, Keeping them is everything. Why would you want to spend your $'s on something that you are not even going to end up keeping.

Are these products steroids?
These products are legal anabolics. How you choose to interpret them is left to you.

Before reading this guide is there anything I have to know

a) Prior to using anabolics, my .02 is to get your diet and training into check, do not just wake up one day, look at the forum, the logs and decide to pop in a few pills.
B) This guide by no means makes you ready to run the cycles listed below. Knowledge is power, read about these chemicals individually and research into their parent steroid structures and their working. Each one of these compounds and their current concentration depending on your body weight has different postive and negatives.
c) By taking these compounds, gains are imminent, but as stated earlier, how solid these gains are, are totally left to how you learn to cycle and supplement your existing system. You could land up with a whole lot of water retained and cheat yourself "thinking" that these are gains, or you could actually pack on some quality lean mass with some clever cycle planning and auxiliary supplementation.

A few suggested cycles :

a) The Cutter:

Week 1 - 40mg
Week 2 - 40mg
Week 3 - 30mg Prostanozol 125mg
Week 4 - 30mg Prostanozol 150mg
Week 5 - Prostanozol 200mg
Week 6- Prostanozol 200mg

Week 7- 40mg
Week 8- 40mg
Week 9- 20mg
Week 10- 10mg

Added notes

Runnning clenbutrol in week 9 and 10 with some benadryl or keitofen would be super beneficial. While being a good cutter its anti catabolic effect would help with the PCT.

Bulking Cycles:

Wet Bulker:
Week 1 - 40mg
Week 2- 40mg
Week 3- 30mg
Week 4- Epistane 20mg
Week 5- Epistane 20mg
Week 6- Epistane 30mg
Week 7- Epistane 40mg

I would recommend Fareston 120/100/100 and a low dose of exemestane (aromasin)

Why this PCT
a) Looking at the chemical structures of both Madol (PP) and Epi/Havoc , the heptatoxicity could be a little overboard in the PCT if you were to use a standard - Nolvadex cycle.
B) From anecdotal and personal experience, I have come to the conclusion that a SERM + a real low dose of exemestane is probably the fastest way to a good recovery.
c) You "could" use 5mg of Nolva-dex on cycle.

Smooth Bulker

Week 1 - 30mg SD
Week 2- 30mg SD
Week 3- 10mg SD Epistane 20mg
Week 4- 10mg SD Epistane 20mg
Week 5- Epistane 30mg
Week 6 Epistane 30mg

Same PCT as above, I will switch Clomid with the Fareston.

While on SD i have noticed that my quality of ejaculation has been bad. Not so much with the output but with the consistency.
SD is a variant of drostanolone prop. An anti-estrogen in itself. While ON cycle gyno is not a problem we always have had the big debate of DELAYED gyno and all that. I would there for again recommend Aromasin/Exemestane.

On these cycles both recomposition and bulking what kind of diet would you recommend.
I would HIGHLY recommend a low carb, high protein, high fat, targeted ketogenic diet. My personal experience has been VERY pleasing with this diet on anabolics. While it becomes real easy to take these hormones with fats (considering hormones are fat soluable) the downside is a fair amount of lethargy that maybe a by product of the anabolics and the low carb diet.

However considering that these cycles are no more than 6-8 weeks in length, its a perfect window for running a TKD diet. The PCT is again complete carbing up and carb cycling to keep those gains solid. The rapid insulin spike will not only promote a boost in growth but will also make adapt itself to a new training/maintainence routine which I think should be a part of every PCT.

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#2 pembroke3355



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Posted 08 November 2008 - 12:45 PM

I also agree that the Nolva be run at 20/20/20/20

#3 Adrenolin


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Posted 08 November 2008 - 01:10 PM

I also agree that the Nolva be run at 20/20/20/20

x2 I've never ran it above 30, and 30 didn't make any big difference from 20 either.

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#4 em-dubya


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Posted 08 November 2008 - 01:25 PM

On the PP/Epi bulker , you really need to run the PP 4 weeks not 3 ~~~you are really cutting yourself short by that last week.;)
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#5 jhicks3301


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Posted 08 November 2008 - 02:27 PM

I love epi!
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#6 Master_Of_Puppets


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Posted 09 November 2008 - 02:18 PM

im looking at my next cycle...M-drol at the end of a cut?
No man has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training....what a shame it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable." Socrates 470-399 B.C.

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